old school special effects experiment

[MovieStuff]

Crappy is right. I didn't rent the unit' the production company did so they could shoot meaningless slow-mo footage of the star walking and brooding instead of acting. Stink-er-rooo. But the effects were fun. Don't know Norm. Sorry.

Roger

[This message has been edited by MovieStuff (edited August 05, 2001).]

[AlexGfromUK]

I thought Panavision cameras were supposed to be super fantastic?? well anyway, moviestuff, do you think your photoshop pattern Idea could be used for detail on my space ship??

[MovieStuff]

Hi, UK-Alex!

Regarding photoshop detail:

The thing is, space ship shots are really their coolist because it lets the audience get a real close look at all the model detail. This detail is brought out best when the model moves. If you use a pattern that is flat, like I did with the bricks, it only works effectively if the shot is stationary. In the end, you can look forward to about two weeks solid model building if you want any appreciable detail on a 3-4 foot model. Then, of course, you'll shoot it in a day and go,"That's it?"

Regarding Panavision: They are based, for the most part, on old Mitchel cameras. Now the old Mitchels are terrific. They had a lot of trouble, I was told, with Panavisions on this movie. And, they're just so damned heavy. Perhaps I shouldn't say they were "crappy'. Certainly their lenses are terrific and the cameras are steady, image wise. They just seem a little "inconvenient" for the amount of money they charge. Give me an Arri any day.

Have fun!

Roger

[This message has been edited by MovieStuff (edited August 06, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by MovieStuff (edited August 06, 2001).]

[jocko]

Alex UK,
That's why the smile is next to the statement..It was a joke..the PANAFLEX camera's are great..of course they are not as good as...say a NIZO ..but I'm with Roger...give me an ARRI any day

Neil
JOCKO FILMS

[chas_ucla]

Alex,
good luck with your project. I'm sorry I can't be of much help -- Roger seems to have answered most of your questions.

Coincidentally in a couple of weeks I'm going to start another G.I. Joe stop-motion film -- that "blaxploitation" project I was talking to you about in L.A. My 1/6 scale problems will be a piece of cake compared to yours (mostly indoor "set pieces" using office-type furniture).

[AlexGfromUK]

Is that the GI joe shaft-type Idea you menttioned?

P.s. I hope my problems are'nt too horrific in trying to make this model! Its really just for fun before I go off to university in september.

[chas_ucla]

Yeah, it's sort of a "Shaft" idea...but really it's going to be quite different. The blaxploitation-era '70's filtered through the eyes of a white 30-something who never lived in the 'hood. With a bit of racy sex...all shot on glorious Kodachrome!

Anyway, do yourself a favor and get started on your film NOW-- you'll never have as much time as you do before school starts. My classes start in late September and I'm hoping I can start in a couple of weeks.

[chas_ucla]

Scott,
I'm part of the graphic design cert. program at UCLA Extension. They are offering an S-8 film class as well but there just isn't enough time...

What film/media classes will you be taking at CSUN this semester?

CHAS

[This message has been edited by chas_ucla (edited August 08, 2001).]

[Hanthx]

Hey Chas!

Where are you going to attend classes at?

Cya

Sc tt

[MovieStuff]

Hi, again, Alex from the UK!

Listen, there is one other thing that I thought of regarding miniatures that you need to watch out for: Paralax shift when panning and tilting.

When you shoot something that is far away and really big, like a battleship, the few inches that your camera is situated above and away from the true pivot point of the tripod is insignificant compared to the distance your subject is. Therefore, when you pan, a car in the forground will tend to be "locked" to the background and move along with it across the screen. This tells the viewer that both the car and the battleship are some distance from the camera.

However, if something were really close to the lens, like a model ship, the the distance between the camera and the true pivot point becomes very imporant. If, let's say, your ship were 1/20th scale, then 1 inch would represent 20 feet, correct? In such a situation, the 4-5 inches that your lens hangs out in space from the true pivot point is like having your entire camera on the end of a pole 80-100 out.

Therefore, when you pan, the paralax shift will make the ship in the foreground move by the frame faster than the background, even though they are both supposed to be at infinity and move together.

In this case, you need what is called a "nodal point pan and tilt head" or "nodal head" for short. You can make one out of wood and bolts very cheaply. The concept is to slide the camera back until the lens is over the true pivot center of the tripod. If all you are doing is panning with no tilting, then a simple plank or metal bar with mounting holes for the offset will work.

Cut a 2 inch wide board about 3/4" thick and about a foot long. Drill a series of 1/4 inch holes along the length of the board right down the middle. Or, better yet, drill a single hole at one end and a slot along the rest for finer adjustment. Using either a T nut or a simple hex nut, secure the board to the tripod in the single hole at the end of the board. Standing behind the tripod, the slotted portion should extend toward you. Next, mount your camera on the slot and move it to a position where the mid point of the lens is directly over the pivot point of the tripod. Tighten the camera to the slot.

Using two light stands or the equivelant, place one light stand in between the camera and the other stand. Look through the camera and pan left and right. If the nodal point of the lens hasn't been found, then you will see one stand "peek" from behind the other as you pan. Adjust the camera on the slot slightly and try again. Keep sliding the camera back and forth until you are able to pan the camera without the distant stand peeking around the other as you pan. Once so, you have found the "nodal point" of the lens.

Now, you can place small models in the foreground and, when you pan, they will appear as if they are in the far distant. In fact, this is an old trick and is really quite elegant. You can even make a model that appears to be part of something larger in the distance.

For instance, you could create just the doorway for a space ship in the distance for your actors to walk though and continue the rest of the surrounding ship via a foreground model. Then, as the actors walk, you can pan right along with them. You can even zoom in and out if you have enough depth of field! (do it in the sun) Because the foreground model and the full size distant structure stay "locked" together as you pan, the illusion is created of it all being one solid, really big object.

If you need to tilt as well, then you will have to create a nodal point cradle that allows panning and tilting around the nodal point of the lens.

I've used this effect many times and it always is fun when completed. See the rocket ship on its gantry at my website:
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/rocket.html

Also, check out the movie "Honey, I Blew Up the Kid!" You will find some of the best examples of forground miniatures ever put on film in that movie. Really great work.

Roger